Do stereo typical meat eaters value the lives of animals more than plants? As stated in an earlier post, I think that they do. If this is the case, then it seems that when making food selections it would be inconsistent for the meat-eater to choose animal meat over the vegetarian option assuming that they have such options available to them. What makes the selection of meat inconsistent if they value animals more than plants? Teasing out that answer will be my focus here.
We all seem to have a hierarchy of value that is internal to us. By ‘hierarchy of value‘ all I mean to say is that we value some things more than others. Circumstances may, and often do, play a part as to how we should act given our particular value hierarchy, but for the most part we have a fixed value schema that tends to change only when confronted with new information or a better understanding of the world. Some things we value are instrumental and others are intrinsic. The difference between an intrinsic value and an instrumental value goes something like this; something that has instrumental value is something that is useful to us as a means to an end. While something that has intrinsic value is an end in itself. Let’s call this distinction between values the ‘Value Distinction’ or VD[3].
The best way to think about this distinction is to think of yourself on a deserted island. On that Island would money still be valuable to you (assuming you have enough fire starter logs for a lifetime)? Now, would the life of your mother still have value on this island? The answering to yes in the latter case and no in the former case points to the heart of the VD distinction, that money is only valuable as long as it can get you other things – it’s instrumental; as long as it serves as a means to an end while the life of your mom seems to have value because it is an end in itself – intrinsic value. For our purposes here this generic distinction will do in order to facilitate the discussion of the inconsistencies within the stereo typical meat eater’s value schema.
To see the inconsistency I’d like for you to consider this thought experiment—let’s call it the choo-choo case. (It’s a variation of the Trolley Problem first offered by Virtue Ethicist Phillipa Foot and later by Judith Jarvis Thomson).
Imagine yourself in a runaway train car that is connected to a track. The track runs from one city to the next and has two adjacent tracks that you could ride on just in case there happens to be a problem with your track. The train car can not only detect items on the track over a mile before you near a particular point, but can describe exactly what they are and what kind of impact hitting those items will do to the car. Now, on your way home your car tells you that there is a pig on your track but hitting the pig only yields a 1% chance of damaging your car. Assuming you’d not want to hit the pig because you’d feel bad in killing it you ask the car for information on the adjacent tracks. It says that there is a pig on the right hand track which also yields a 1% chance of damaging your car. It then says that there is a bean plant on the left track that would also result in a 1% chance of damaging your car. In either case the car lets you know that whatever track you take you will end the life of that living thing. No matter what track you choose you will be killing something[4]. Now, it seems that most people, including meat eaters, would opt for the track that kills the plant. If this intuition is incorrect then my conclusion will be less salient than initially thought. However, if I am not, then it seems like the meat-eater has a moral conundrum on his hands, because, when entering the market the meat-eater has similar options.
In the choo-choo thought experiment he had the choice to kill a plant or animal, it seems that most would choose to kill the plant. At the grocery store he has a similar choice—the plant or animal?
If the example seems dis-analogous we can tweak it a bit to hit the point home. Initially, it seems that in the choo-choo case the agent would be actively choosing to end the life of an animal if he chose one of the tracks with an animal on it. In the market the animal is already dead. So, imagine the choo-choo example again but this time with no animals on the track. Imagine that if the agent stays on the track the computer tells him that a dog will die by having his neck slashed by a machine. The electricity generated from the car over that particular track doesn’t kill the animal right away but rather adds electricity to a machine that will kill a dog. The other track will produce energy that is stored to kill a sheep, and the third track will save the energy produced to crush a potted bean plant to pieces. It still seems intuitive to think that most meat eaters will opt to crush the potted bean plant. What would you do?
Most animals seem to have more value than mere instrumental value. Yes, we sometimes use animals as means to an end but they seem to have value beyond such means. Think back to the deserted island example. Would we think of animals in the same way as we thought of the money? Let’s assume we had all the food we needed (including an unlimited supply of marinated meat of your choice) would we see a living animal as we do a piece of useless paper?
If we look at the laws within our society they seem to be telling of an obvious answer. We have laws that aim to protect animals. In the United States there are laws in nearly every state (43 at last glance) that forbids the mistreatment and neglect of animals. Yet, in that same country the average meat-eater consumes 194 pounds of flesh per year[5]. It seems quite inconsistent that we want to protect these animals yet actively kill them to feed and nourish ourselves, often times mistreating them[6] before ending their lives and becoming dinner.
There was a time, not too long ago, that we had very few options other than consuming animal flesh in order to nourish our bodies. However, that time has come and gone. It seems that the only appeal that I’ve heard consistently from the meat-eater is that “it tastes better”. So, if someone claims to value the life of animals yet chooses to eat one because “it tastes good” and for no other reason, then it seems like the value of a life fluctuates depending on how it tastes? Can this truly be a warranted justification? In order to see if it is let’s try and apply this ideology (that the taste of flesh trumps the value of that living things life) to other live beings that we value? We have seen that this won’t work, for reasons detailed in the last 2 posts.
To recap – I have argued that the stereotypical meat-eater is inconsistent. It seems that they value the life of an animal more than that of a plant (generally speaking) yet choose not to eat a less valued plant when faced with what to eat for dinner. I tried to show how this is the case by way of the choo-choo thought experiment. The thought experiment posited a case in which a person was riding home in a car with the option of going on 3 tracks. One track had a potted bean plant; another had a dog laying on the track, while the other had a sheep on the tracks. If my thought experiment is attuned to how most will react in the choo-choo example then it seems the meat-eater is faced with a moral conundrum. If animals do have intrinsic value and it seems that they do (remember the examples of the protection they have under U.S law) then it is not consistent for humans to eat them. Even if one thinks that plants too have value, outside of their ability to nourish us, it still seems that the choo-choo example shows us that the plant has less value than that of an animal when considered on an individual case-by-case basis.
I’d love to hear any thoughts you might have.
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[3] This is a widely accepted distinction. However, there is much debate regarding intrinsic value in environmental ethics. For our purposes here let’s assume that there is a difference and that difference is the means/end distinction that I’ve stipulated with the VD model.
[4] Let’s also assume that the car computer can also tell if the impact to each animal/plant will kill it. Let’s stipulate that the bean plant is in a pot that will shatter and tear the plant to shreds upon impact.
[5] For more on how this data was collected please see the United States Department of Agriculture web site at; http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/apr03/form0403.htm.
[6] Here I am appealing to factory farm conditions. Factory farming produces over 75% of the meat in the United States (See USDA Website above).
Jester Who-ver
June 2, 2012
All “exercise” aside, I worry about the effects of placing the creatures of nature on a value scale at all. This would put people in the habit of considering, say plants, as less worthy of attention on matters of ethical treatment, because they are less valuable. Granted, it may be generally understood that plants have no right to ethics, seeing as they lack a nervous system and all, but this leaves the exploitation of plants open to whatever ends any human would consider. It is the same with placing animals on a lower value scale than humans, now it is justifiable to subject many species to lab tests and other such practices for the benefit of the “more valuable” human.
Taking the more abstract notion of plants being living, feeling things with a spirit, deserving of just ethical consideration, out of it, some of the things we’re doing with plants these days are a serious threat to our own survival. GMO’s are dangerous to humans, animals, and other plants alike. Clear cutting entire areas of woodland is dangerous to animals, and shows our ignorance of the way earth works. Then we have the practice of spraying various volatile chemicals on our lawns, gardens, and farms.
What would the reaction be if we started mutating the genetics of humans or other animals, because the scientists profiting from this expressed it’s safety, without the time needed to understand its long-term effects? How upset would people be if genocide was a common occurence for the sake of progress? Putting plants on a less valuable spot in our lives allows these very dangerous practices to continue with little or no regard to the effects it will have on the interconnected nature of our planet. Altering and disregarding the plant kingdom is very dangerous for all the other kingdoms on earth. I don’t personally care about who eats what, or how they justify their decision. I care about the ethical treatment of all creatures on earth, no matter their proposed value on a system of human invention.
When making food selections, we should consider the way in which said food has been produced, the effect this type of production has on the surrounding areas, and how the food is treated or if it is altered. Whether you’re vegetarian or not, or feel as though animals are more valuable then plants, farming practices, and other human activities, have a big impact on everyone and everything’s health and continued survival.
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Justin Caouette
June 3, 2012
Jester, we put value on living things in nature all the time both on a societal level and a personal level. When society makes laws to protect people, that suggests that they value them (they make laws to protect animals and the environment from fires as well). This is not a radical new approach, I see it as a common sense approach that gets forgotten about because we’ve been conditioned to think that eating animals is ok, and, “just the way it is”. We’ve also been conditioned to think it’s ok to annihilate ecosystems in the name of big business. I’d argue that we’re being inconsistent and acting against what we find to be intrinsically valuable when we treat the environment in that manner as well.
As a society we once thought that slavery was “ok”, and, “just the way it is”, we came to our sense then(for lots of different reasons) and we could do it again. Putting value on certain things doesn’t mean that other things do not have value at all. For instance, if you let your mom stay at your place if her house burns down yet you don’t allow a stranger to do so if his house burns down does not suggest that you think that stranger’s life does not have ANY value at all. All it suggests is that your mom has more value to you. Similarly, plants do have value, lots of it. But we must eat in order to survive. Because plants also have value this pressures us into treating them ethically. No clear cutting, no farming that is not sustainable for the environment, etc, etc.
Saying they have less value does not open them up to being treated as anyone sees fit. Just like saying the stranger has less value means you can treat him however you’d like. We value our friendships which is why we call them. You can point to value all the time. Whether we are always conscious of putting it in those terms is another story, I’d argue that we act on value judgements more often than you think. The trick is to be mindful of what we do value and act on that accordingly.
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aquaturtleme
June 4, 2012
hi… i am a total lay person in your field & the thought experiment you introduced to substantiate your thought is really new to me…. but going through the whole exercise in different situations was so interesting… it was as if passing through an adventure castle becoming part of strange experiences en route… interesting yet & liked the simple style…
thanks for sharing
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Ubaldo Cruz Neto
June 4, 2012
Right here is the perfect blog for anybody who wants to understand this topic. You understand a whole lot its almost tough to argue with you (not that I personally will need to…HaHa). You definitely put a brand new spin on a topic that’s been written about for ages. Wonderful stuff, just wonderful!
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Justin Caouette
June 11, 2012
Thanks!
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Jester Who-ver
June 4, 2012
Therein lies my point Justin. Humans have developed a method of placing value on things that are otherwise beyond any concept of worth. Is there such a value scale in nature? Who are we to decide the value of creatures in a place we barely understand the workings of? Is it simply the value each holds for us personally? In that case, the scale is skewed based on each individuals own understanding, or lack there of. Agreed, saying something has less value is not the same as no value, even still though, who treats the homeless man with enough value to aid him? Very few. How many “criminals” are neglected the benefit of the doubt, when their issues goe far beyond their current behavior?
Many, many people lack the motivation to examine their own reasons for thinking the way they do, any good philosopher knows this, and any good psychologist knows how exceedingly easy it is to sway the opinions of the majority of people. The issue, for me, is not the human value plants and animals have individually; often there is none, outside their ability to nourish us…
And glad to have you Aquaturtle!
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Justin Caouette
June 4, 2012
Thanks, Ubaldo. Feel free to recommend this page and article to anyone you think might be interested.
Thanks, aquaturtle.
Jester, I think you’ve missed my distinction in an earlier post regarding intrinsic vs. instrumental value. You claim that individual plants and animals often have NO value to us outside their ability to nourish us – this assumes that they only have instrumental value. But this is the assumption I’m arguing against. Mainly, that animals and plants have value outside of what they can provide us with – intrinsic value. Many claim that humans have intrinsic value and I want to argue that if we grant that humans do, on what grounds should only they hold this value? If it’s a cognitive distinction we run into problems, and, rather than recapitulate my argument in the last 3 posts I’ll refer you back to those if you care to review them.
This is why I discussed the trolley example. We gain nothing from changing the train’s course. We save a life that we find valuable – or so I’ve tried to argue. The same with any time we help a stranger or donate to a charity. I’m not arguing for this value structure to be found in nature, though, it may. I’m only arguing that those that find value in a human life will be hard-pressed to give an argument for why it doesn’t exist in other forms of life. Hence my appeal to cannibalism in my first post and to show the value we normally ascribe to animals with reference to laws that protect their mistreatment. I’m just trying to point to inconsistencies that arise from a meat-eating lifestyle. Even if this value structure is derived by each of us individually it still seems to put meat-eaters in a dilemma.
I agree with you when you say; “Many, many people lack the motivation to examine their own reasons for thinking the way they do, any good philosopher knows this, and any good psychologist knows how exceedingly easy it is to sway the opinions of the majority of people.” But I’m not sure what you’re getting at here.
For the record, I’m not trying to sway anyone away from anything. I’m trying to show that any justification a meat-eater gives for why he indulges in the consumption of animal flesh is bound to point to an inconsistency in his web of beliefs, and/or, result in the justification of bizarre food selections that many would find morally abhorrent.
When discussions like this take place meat-eaters are forced to confront their justifications and examine their reasons for engaging in such practices. So you’re right that most people don;t examine their reasons for doing most of what they do, this is exactly why I started this blog, and, more importantly, why I chose to write n this topic.
Thanks again for your comments, Jester. I appreciate the dialogue.
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Jester Who-ver
June 5, 2012
I already read your posts, wonderfully constructed arguments, you have a gift. I was only referring to a single line in this post, “Even if one thinks that plants too have value, outside of their ability to nourish us…” By saying, “often there is none,” I was pointing out that many people feel the same way about animals that you do about plants. Whether or not they are justified in this belief is usually irrelevant to them, and unfortunately all that matters to most is how relevant something currently is to them.
You said here, “I’m only arguing that those that find value in a human life will be hard-pressed to give an argument for why it doesn’t exist in other forms of life.” Yet, you also keep reiterating to me that just because something has less value does not mean it has no value. I don’t think many would try to argue that value only holds for humans, at least not many that contain any understanding of nature. My point is, when certain things in an interconnected system are attached to more value than others by those creatures that can affect the system, the whole system suffers, unless said creatures have developed true understanding. Your argument falls apart for me simply because it’s foundation is based on something that (most likely) doesn’t exist for anything but us, and is used to justify awful behaviors and habits.
This dilemma you speak of is a connection of your own creation, no matter how valid it is; one that most people will disregard as it involves too much uncomfortable thought. (Not to mention that animals don’t normally participate in cannibalism, unless they have to. So in reality, there is more to cannibalism being “wrong” than a mere moral judgment; instinctually we feel it as wrong, there is no instinct pointing to eating prey as wrong. Though, going back to the 2nd justification in your first post on the subject, I agree with you that our instincts should no longer excuse our behaviors.) Most people just want the easy button, they want to be told what to value, and how much to do so. They completely miss how easy it is to control them, and now we have this world we’re in. That’s what I was getting at with my philosophy/psychology point. I’m here doing a similar thing as you; I’m encouraging people to examine their lives, thoughts, behaviors, and this world we’ve imagined up that is consistently devaluing nature; one which will ultimately kill the vast majority of us. Keep up the great work, little by little we’ll change this world we spontaneously appeared in, haha.
You’re very welcome for the comments Justin, and I’m very glad you’ve humored me here. I too appreciate the dialogue, one could even say I value it… heh heh heh.
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Adam B
July 19, 2013
human greed, putting the needs of humans far above that of any other life form ( as evidenced by the ability to take the life of another living being solely for fun or in this case a mouth full of food). Fear of hunger (what else could I eat, I could not possibly live on salads). Fear of ridicule from peers. Finally blatant lack of compassion.
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