I have spent some time thinking, writing and talking about how philosophers have valuable skills that are sorely needed outside academia (see www.mikesteiner.ca for relevant posts). I’ve also provided advice for how philosophers can sell themselves in order to get good jobs in the business world. In general, I’m a fan of philosophy and truly believe everyone should have at least some exposure to it whether they pursue philosophy professionally or not. In this I’m not alone: many, many people from all sorts of professions have likewise lauded philosophy. So what I’d like to explore now is the flipside (dark side?) to philosophy in both one’s work and personal life. I’d like to get your thoughts rather than post my opinion, but I’ll help by posing some questions:
Does studying philosophy specifically make one worse at certain tasks, or make philosophers less capable to do certain jobs than they were before they studied philosophy? Are there jobs philosophers should specifically avoid on that basis? Beyond work, can philosophy create problems in your personal life or relationships? For example, did it turn you into an excellent debater, only to irritate and alienate your friends and family? Did it make it impossible for you to enjoy cultural or religious practices that you once loved, due to a heightened level of skepticism?
To probe this flipside even further, I’m wondering if there any readers who actually regret doing a degree in philosophy specifically (as opposed to merely regretting doing a graduate degree in general, for example.) And if so, why? What expectations did you have that weren’t met, or what problems did it cause? Certainly, studying philosophy carries an inherent opportunity cost, since time spent on philosophy is time not spent on something else. And if one expected to be able to get paid as a philosopher and found this couldn’t happen, then of course this opportunity cost may loom large. But I’d like to move beyond opportunity cost in this discussion to the disadvantages or downsides to studying philosophy specifically. Or perhaps there is no downside beyond opportunity cost (?) Thanks so much for your thoughts!
-Mike
A Philosopher's Take 
shaunakatdalal
July 14, 2016
A good side to think about!
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nannus
July 15, 2016
Several points come to my mind:
– Some of the views expressed on http://againstprofphil.org/ might be relevant here.
– The “cost” of philosophy depends on the society you are in. During the course of history, a considerable number of philosophers have been killed (Sokrates etc.), imprisoned, tortured, had their works censored etc. Examples exist in other cultures as well (e.g. the burning of books and burying of scholars in China during the Qin dynasty). Philosophy, as the practice of critically analyzing everything, including the society and power structures the philosopher is living in, is a dangerous activity in many places and many times.
– On the other hand, philosophy has a truely dark side when it connects itself to power, e.g. by providing ideology. Examples can be found in many epochs of history and in many places as well.
These dangers can manifest themselves in the same person. There are examples of thinkers who first supported a power system and later became its victim (Plato in Syracus being an early exxample).
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φ-world problems
July 15, 2016
Oddly, I find that getting a doctoral degree in philosophy made me *worse* at philosophy. Here’s an analogy: I was once a psychology major and recall the disappointment amongst my freshmen peers that studying psychology does not make one better understand or predict human thoughts, personalities, and emotions. The trade made us better survey designers, fMRI scanners, coders, and Bayesian statistical analysts, but “psychologist” is the folk conception we are not. Many of us got bored and changed fields.
After 6 years of philosophical training in the art of deconstruction, reconstruction, and construction of logical arguments, after staking a place in my field by distinguishing between 16 subtly different conceptions of a term, after lecturing to my students that one can create a position in the free will debate by adopting an alternative meaning of the term “free will”, I find that I miss the days of reading great works and getting pushed by them to look at the world differently.
Don’t get me wrong, I am not critiquing the field. I am just saying that this is a downside to becoming a specialist in your field. What was “exciting” and “mind-blowing” in broad-stroke terms are broken down, analyzed to death, and carefully assessed and re-characterized in jargon. Progress is painstakingly minor and nearly inconsequential. Many good papers are those that state the obvious, and one comes to appreciate how hard it is to even do that.
Being a professional scholar of philosophy sucks the joy out of philosophy and also tarnishes the wisdom that is supposedly attached to philosophical reflection and argumentation.
My first philosophy professor once told me: there are two outcomes of going to grad school for philosophy. You are either the rare one that becomes a philosopher or you are the many that become the stonemasons and lecturers of philosophy. I guess I’ve fallen into the latter, with hope for the former. But you asked about the dark side, and this is the dark shadow I’m in.
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M. Martin
July 15, 2016
It doesn’t make life easier – that’s for sure! Although we all have studied the Stoics and the Epicureans (which I consider as the only attempts in western philosophy to make life easier) we still might struggle in everyday life with “simple” issues, caused by our unreasonable behavior respectively by such behavior of others. The only thing that has changed is that we now are able to recognize unreasonable behavior – but unfortunately that doesn’t mean that we are able to do anything about it. So, in fact one could say that studying philosophy made things worse: you know it better (or at least you think you do) and can’t do much. Using philosophical arguments to solve relationship-, work- or family-issues doesn’t work (for me): just because we are valuing reasonable, i.e. logically consistent, thinking doesn’t mean that others do so too. Some people are not interested in finding the truth – they just want to be right. Without philosophical training we might deal with such issues by labeling our opponents (silently) as idiots and carry on with our daily business, but as a philosophically trained person we don’t do that. We don’t do that because we are asking ourselves: Why? How? Is there anything I might have misunderstood? And even if we come do the conclusion that our position is entirely justified we don’t feel triumph. Instead we begin to feel a little sad (at least I do) because we know that this wasn’t the only argument that could not be won with reasonable thinking. It happens all the time – everywhere – and it will happen again. The stoic way would be to accept it as something that cannot be changed. Unfortunately being able to accept something that cannot be changed is not necessarily a character trait that comes along with an interest in philosophy…
…do I regret my choice? No, because studying philosophy is not the cause of our philosophical nature – it’s the other way around: a philosophical nature is the cause of an academic endeavor in this field. And in fact the issues that I’m having are not really caused by philosophy but rather by a lack of philosophy… by a lack of philosophy in others! YES, I SAID IT! AND I MEAN IT!
“Hell is other people!”
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M. Martin
July 15, 2016
It doesn’t make life easier – that’s for sure! Although we all have studied the Stoics and the Epicureans (which I consider as the only attempts in western philosophy to make life easier) we still might struggle in everyday life with “simple” issues, caused by our unreasonable behavior respectively by such behavior of others. The only thing that has changed is that we now are able to recognize unreasonable behavior – but unfortunately that doesn’t mean that we are able to do anything about it. So, in fact one could say that studying philosophy made things worse: you know it better (or at least you think you do) and can’t do much. Using philosophical arguments to solve relationship-, work- or family-issues doesn’t work (for me): just because we are valuing reasonable, i.e. logically consistent, thinking doesn’t mean that others do so too. Some people are not interested in finding the truth – they just want to be right. Without philosophical training we might deal with such issues by labeling our opponents (silently) as idiots and carry on with our daily business, but as a philosophically trained person we don’t do that. We don’t do that because we are asking ourselves: Why? How? Is there anything I might have misunderstood? And even if we come do the conclusion that our position is entirely justified we don’t feel triumph. Instead we begin to feel a little sad (at least I do) because we know that this wasn’t the only argument that could not be won with reasonable thinking. It happens all the time – everywhere – and it will happen again. The stoic way would be to accept it as something that cannot be changed. Unfortunately being able to accept something that cannot be changed is not necessarily a character trait that comes along with an interest in philosophy…
…do I regret my choice? No, because studying philosophy is not the cause of our philosophical nature – it’s the other way around: a philosophical nature is the cause of an academic endeavor in this field. And in fact the issues that I’m having are not really caused by philosophy but rather by a lack of philosophy… by a lack of philosophy in others! YES, I SAID IT! AND I MEAN IT!
“Hell is other people!”
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Alison K McConwell
July 15, 2016
Thanks for this post Mike! Here’s some answers to your questions:
-I used to find mundane repetitive tasks tolerable before studying philosophy. For instance, a long time ago I worked at Blockbuster which was basically a filing job with movies. I’m not sure I can do this now. Another example would be when my husband and I roofed our house or put flooring in. I find doing the same thing over and over almost unbearable especially when the progress is only a little at a time.
-beyond the workload, sometimes philosophy can be alienating. I’ve realized sometimes people just do not want to hear the rationale for some particular claim or directive. Because I have trouble understanding that….I think I can come off as condescending and irritating. Especially if that person just wants someone to listen to rather than someone who rationalizes what they say. It’s something I’m working on.
-if I was at all an agnostic fence sitter concerning religion and “life after death” at one point, I have philosophy to blame now for my atheism. I’m a sad atheist!
-I do not yet regret completing philosophy degrees, but given the support that trades training receives from the government and the jobs available in that area, I sometimes wonder whether the massive amount of student loans I’ve accrued will be worth it in the end. I hope it will be!
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M. Martin
July 16, 2016
Just out of curiosity: how can philosophy turn someone into an atheist? How do you prove the non-existence of something? For all I know: god exists at least as an idea in our heads and as long as something is conceivable it should be possible.
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Alison K McConwell
July 16, 2016
Because I’ve find the arguments for the existence of God to not be compelling and so the atheist corner is what I’ve painted myself into. It’s also a far step from mere possibility to actuality.
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Brent Silby
July 16, 2016
The failure of an argument for the existence of God != God does not exist. Agnosticism seems a reasonable position to hold while you await better arguments.
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Alison K McConwell
July 18, 2016
Good point! Though I’m pessimistic about fence-sitting in this case.
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Justin Caouette (@JustinCaouette)
July 15, 2016
Great post, Mike! No regrets here.
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Kevin
July 15, 2016
Interesting question. Thinking about some of the qualities you mention, like “irritating friends and family with debate” it seems like we have to be careful to separate characteristics philosophy tends to select for as opposed to those it imparts.
I was always prone to argument; sometimes over finicky details as a child. And while grad school hasn’t exactly smoothed that part out of me, I wouldn’t say it’s encouraged it either — it’s put me on the receiving end of debates with people who have similar qualities, which if anything, reminds me of how I can come across.
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Sandi
July 16, 2016
how do you help someone who get sucked into the dark side of philosophy. Who is unsure about everything and cares about nothing because he not sure anything is real?
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missmelancollie
July 16, 2016
Hi Mike,
I did an MA in Philosophy mainly for fun, because had always been interested in Continental philosophy. The course was more analytical though, as is the norm in the UK.
Propositional logic made me realise that I am of pretty mediocre intelligence at best – about half of the class took to it, the other half (including me) saw it more as a windup.
Apart from the dent to self esteem, I agree with Alison above that a logical argument – as we were taught to construct – can annoy or alienate people. I actually had someone shout at me saying “stop being so rational”.
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tinakathryn
July 16, 2016
I discovered philosophy by accident by checking out a book on history of philosophy. I suffer from major depression and had just made a near lethal suicide attempt. That was the darkness before the dawn–in philosophy I found a new life. It was like a whole new world opened up. I always was the type to ponder questions no one else I knew was thinking about, like what was there before the universe, etc. I plan to major in philosophy which gets my family twisted. They want me to study something that will get me a job. I tried to fulfill their wishes and study nursing but one of my professors didn’t like my attitude of questioning authority and made my life a living hell so I dropped out. My attitude of questioning authority and questioning irrational orders gets me in trouble a lot. In classes I have been screamed at by my classmates for debating. I don’t care if I end up working as a barista for the rest of my life, i’m going to study philosophy.
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Louis Naughtic
August 2, 2016
Em, I’ve given up talking to people at random about philosophy. Mostly just blank stares. If you press the matter, they tend to become combative, as you poke holes in their emotionally comforting paradigms. Nevermind whether or not you’re presenting actionable information.
For those types of people, I don’t think philosophy is a good thing, unless they have very good teachers. Philosophy is just a collection of ideas. Ideas lead people to create or destroy, nearly at random. Most people can barely see through popculture, muchless handle the complexities of philosophy.
There’s always someone killing someone else over an idea neither understands.
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Alice Funk Farie
November 4, 2016
This is a very interesting philosophical question (pun intended) you pose. She I did not major in philosophy, I did take several philosophy classes in undergrad as well as other social science classes, even though I was a music major. I am forever a student of life and am constantly researching on my own since graduating school (in 1999). While I do not have the authority that others may have on this topic, I do feel somewhat qualified to speak on this as philosophy is a large part of my life.
As someone who always dealt in an identity crisis growing up, since studying philosophy and opening my mind up to such a radical way of thinking, I do feel it has alienated me even further from most of the peers I am surrounded by. I feel as though I can always blend in and adapt to any social group I am conversing with, but I never truly feel as though I have found my “people”. I always feel like I am a jack of all trades and master of none. My studying philosophy just makes me seem even more esoteric and eccentric to any other group of people that I try to befriend if I am to truly express the thoughts that run through my mind. I feel as though I must hold back so much out of fear of appearing even more “out there” then I already seem to many.
-As someone else also commented, I also struggle with some of the more mundane tasks as well which I do attribute to my studies in philosophy. I feel as though my time is better spent on other tasks and that my mind can never be freed up to accomplish all of the ideas I have percolating in my brain because I have to keep up with all of the daily tasks of living. I fear that so much of what I feel I could contribute to the world will end up dying along with me due to the necessity of the daunting daily chores. And this creates depression in me.
-I do feel as though my pondering of certain tasks impedes my ability to complete them or complete them properly. I read further in to things then is necessary most times. I contemplate the meanings of things to such an extent, that anyone else would have just completed the task at that point, rather than question or argue it’s need for being done, or question the reasoning behind its purpose and specific steps.
-Do I regret studying philosophy and the social sciences? No. I pride myself on being unique. I just wish the world could be more accepting of my uniqueness and that I would be able to find more people more easily that I can relate to on the different levels so that I might feel more understood on the whole if I had at least one person in each facet of my personality that truly understood me, even if in just one specific area.
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